One wonders if it is entirely a coincidence that all bar one of those
on the BBC’s Today programme were Labour MPs defending the
Speaker. There is the usual nasty BBC smell about this!
Harriet Harman was much more circumspect .
The cause of liberty was advanced today elsewhere after the Law Lords
had thrown out a plea by two innocent men to have records of their
DNA held by the police expunged. “Two British men should not have
had their DNA and fingerprints retained by police, the European Court
of Human Rights has ruled, --- The judges said keeping the
information "could not be regarded as necessary in a democratic
society” (BBC Online) This ruling will have repercussions for the
whole Police DNA base. The ruling was the unanimous decision of 17
judges
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx cs
=========================
TELEGRAPH - Leader 4.12.08
Shocking negligence in the Damian Green affair
Outrage over the Metropolitan Police's arrest of Damian Green and the
search of his Commons office turned to incredulity yesterday as the
Speaker, Michael Martin, explained last week's sequence of events.
For it emerged that this unprecedented raid, rightly described by
Michael Howard as an "attack" on the ability of an MP to do his job,
was unauthorised. The police officers had no warrant and the person
responsible for the security of the House of Commons, the Serjeant At
Arms Jill Pay, did not ask for one. Instead she signed a consent form
allowing the police to trawl through Mr Green's correspondence and
computers without, it appears, seeking the advice of anyone who might
actually have a clue about what to do.
If Mr Martin wanted to turn Mrs Pay into the scapegoat, he was only
partly successful. For his statement also exposed his own shocking
negligence. He was told by Mrs Pay last Wednesday "in strictest
confidence" that an MP might be arrested, and early the following
morning was told both who it was and that a search of his office
might take place. Speaker Martin, the "chief officer and highest
authority of the House of Commons", then appears to have sat back and
allowed events to take their course. According to his own account, he
posed no questions and sought no counsel. He says he was not told
there was no police warrant. Could that be because he did not ask? Mr
Martin has not been tardy in the past in taking expensive legal
advice to protect his own position when questions were raised about
expenses claimed by his family. Yet when confronted by this assault
on the fundamental rights of MPs, he seems to have displayed dumb
acquiescence. Mr Martin's position must surely now be untenable.
His statement also raises worrying questions about the police. For
senior officers to authorise the search of an MP's Commons office
without a warrant shows either extraordinary arrogance or immense
stupidity. Mr Green, the victim of their bullying tactics, spoke well
yesterday as he gave a warning that while MPs are not above the law,
neither are the police nor their political masters. And he reminded
the House he had not threatened national security but had simply
embarrassed Home Office ministers. The abiding impression left by
this affair is of the power of the state being wielded to stifle an
inconvenient voice. In the face of this, the Commons has been ill-
served by its highest officers. As for the House itself, with one or
two exceptions it split on partisan grounds, showing it is less
interested in defending the rights of a Member than in scoring party
political points. Small wonder politicians are held in such low esteem.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
on the BBC’s Today programme were Labour MPs defending the
Speaker. There is the usual nasty BBC smell about this!
Harriet Harman was much more circumspect .
The cause of liberty was advanced today elsewhere after the Law Lords
had thrown out a plea by two innocent men to have records of their
DNA held by the police expunged. “Two British men should not have
had their DNA and fingerprints retained by police, the European Court
of Human Rights has ruled, --- The judges said keeping the
information "could not be regarded as necessary in a democratic
society” (BBC Online) This ruling will have repercussions for the
whole Police DNA base. The ruling was the unanimous decision of 17
judges
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx cs
=========================
TELEGRAPH - Leader 4.12.08
Shocking negligence in the Damian Green affair
Outrage over the Metropolitan Police's arrest of Damian Green and the
search of his Commons office turned to incredulity yesterday as the
Speaker, Michael Martin, explained last week's sequence of events.
For it emerged that this unprecedented raid, rightly described by
Michael Howard as an "attack" on the ability of an MP to do his job,
was unauthorised. The police officers had no warrant and the person
responsible for the security of the House of Commons, the Serjeant At
Arms Jill Pay, did not ask for one. Instead she signed a consent form
allowing the police to trawl through Mr Green's correspondence and
computers without, it appears, seeking the advice of anyone who might
actually have a clue about what to do.
If Mr Martin wanted to turn Mrs Pay into the scapegoat, he was only
partly successful. For his statement also exposed his own shocking
negligence. He was told by Mrs Pay last Wednesday "in strictest
confidence" that an MP might be arrested, and early the following
morning was told both who it was and that a search of his office
might take place. Speaker Martin, the "chief officer and highest
authority of the House of Commons", then appears to have sat back and
allowed events to take their course. According to his own account, he
posed no questions and sought no counsel. He says he was not told
there was no police warrant. Could that be because he did not ask? Mr
Martin has not been tardy in the past in taking expensive legal
advice to protect his own position when questions were raised about
expenses claimed by his family. Yet when confronted by this assault
on the fundamental rights of MPs, he seems to have displayed dumb
acquiescence. Mr Martin's position must surely now be untenable.
His statement also raises worrying questions about the police. For
senior officers to authorise the search of an MP's Commons office
without a warrant shows either extraordinary arrogance or immense
stupidity. Mr Green, the victim of their bullying tactics, spoke well
yesterday as he gave a warning that while MPs are not above the law,
neither are the police nor their political masters. And he reminded
the House he had not threatened national security but had simply
embarrassed Home Office ministers. The abiding impression left by
this affair is of the power of the state being wielded to stifle an
inconvenient voice. In the face of this, the Commons has been ill-
served by its highest officers. As for the House itself, with one or
two exceptions it split on partisan grounds, showing it is less
interested in defending the rights of a Member than in scoring party
political points. Small wonder politicians are held in such low esteem.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
AND
2. Pressure on Commons Speaker Michael Martin increased by Harriet
Harman
The Damian Green arrest affair has intensified with House of Commons
Speaker Michael Martin under increasing pressure to resign after
Harriet Harman declined to back him.
Mr Martin has come under fire after he blamed a senior colleague for
allowing police to raid a Tory MP's parliamentary office.
Miss Harman, the Leader of the Commons, would not give her backing to
Mr Martin when interviewed on BBC's Newsnight.
Asked repeatedly if she had confidence in Mr Martin, Miss Harman, a
lawyer, refused to answer. She simply said that it was her job as
leader to work with the Speaker and Serjeant at Arms.
Miss Harman, who is also deputy Labour leader, said: "I am not saying
I've got full confidence in anything or anybody I'm just telling you
what the facts are".
=====================
POLITICS HOME 3.12.08
Comments on Police Scandal
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Today programme, BBC Radio 4 at 07:15
Pound: Only Harman questioning Speaker
Stephen Pound, Labour MP
Mr Pound defended Speaker Michael Martin and claimed only Commons
leader Harriet Harman was refusing to offer him full confidence.
He spoke after Ms Harman was asked five times on the Newsnight
programme to declare full confidence inn the Speaker and Serjeant At
Arms, Jill Pay, but refused.
Mr Pound insisted Mr Martin was a decent man and it was only
"hindsight" that led to suggestions he should have established
whether police had a warrant when they searched Tory Damian Green's
office.
"Conservative officials in Damian Green's office did not ask for a
warrant when the police turned up. It is easy being incredibly wise
after the event. In hindsight and with retrospect, I would have asked
the perfect question," he said.
Asked whether Ms Harman's response meant the Speaker should go, he
said most Labour MPs supported him and he should stay for the
remainder of the session, at least.
"I do not know what his long term plans are," he said.
He agreed MPs had been "aghast" at how events had unfurled, adding:
"Many MPs were aghast at the way the Tory party seemed to be
soliciting information from this wannabe Tory MP."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Today programme, BBC Radio 4 at 07:58
Lord Mackenzie: MP can't claim privilege if crime comitted
Lord Mackenzie, Labour peer and former chief superintendent
Lord Mackenzie insisted MPs could not claim privilege if a crime had
been committed and said the police would have had the right to search
Damian Green's office without a warrant because he was arrested.
"Clearly there was a document produced and signed by the Serjeant At
Arms which gave permission. There were national security issues
involved, Sir Paul Stephenson said that, and that the CPS was
involved all the way through and the police process was checked with
them," he said. [The Director of Public Prosecutions [CPS]
categorically denies involvement. And if this argument were correct
it merely means that if the Police want to search somewhere and know
they’d never get a warrant they just trump a charge and arrest them.
This man talks rubbish! -cs]
He said Westminster was a "special place" but added that a police
search did not require a warrant if there was an arrest., adding:
"Warrants are generally used when people are not under arrest".
"There is no way an MP can claim privilege if a criminal offence is
involved and these are serious issues," he said.
He also said the officers concerned would be "quite happy" to be
summoned to the bar of the Commons to explain themselves.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Today programme, BBC Radio 4 at 08:13
Beckett: Not for government to support Speaker
Margaret Beckett, Housing minister
Mrs Beckett supported Harriet Harman's refusal to declare her views
on the Speaker, saying it was not for the government to support or
criticise the Speaker.
"The Speaker is elected by the whole House. If the government starts
giving endorsement to or criticism of the Speaker we are in very
difficult territory. It is not for the government to give support or
otherwise for the Speaker," she said.
She said she did not believe either the Speaker of the Serjeant At
Arms were solely to blame for the circumstances surrounding the
search of Damian Green's Commons office, saying it had been a series
of unfortunate events.
Asked for her views on the Speaker, she said: "I think he handled
things yesterday with dignity."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Today, Radio 4 at 08:56
Winnick: I thought it was justified to make the remarks I made
David Winnick, Labour MP
Mr Winnick said he “thought it was justified to make the remarks I
made” about calling police officers to the Commons to explain their
conduct in the Damian Green arrest, and added that it was important
that Labour MPs voice their protests.
“If we just allow ourselves to agree to what occurred…it can
encourage further raids. If it happened to an opposition MP today,
who will be next?
“If we don’t make our protests from government benches there will be
less credibility if a Labour MP is arrested.”
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Today, Radio 4 at 08:57
Kennedy questions how much police can contribute to MPs' inquiry
Charles Kennedy, former Liberal Democrat leader
Mr Kennedy questioned how much information the police would be able
to provide to the committee of MPs asked to look into the Damian
Green affair, and denied parliamentarians were being “over precious”
over the issue.
“We’ve got this inquiry set up. There are serious question marks
about common sense apart from anything else.
“What I’m not clear about is how much the police will be able to
contribute to such an inquiry.
“I’ve genuinely been quite struck…that it was by and large the main
topic of conversation that people wanted to raise with you in terms
of politics.
“I don’t think we’re being over precious – there should be a line in
the sand.”
2. Pressure on Commons Speaker Michael Martin increased by Harriet
Harman
The Damian Green arrest affair has intensified with House of Commons
Speaker Michael Martin under increasing pressure to resign after
Harriet Harman declined to back him.
Mr Martin has come under fire after he blamed a senior colleague for
allowing police to raid a Tory MP's parliamentary office.
Miss Harman, the Leader of the Commons, would not give her backing to
Mr Martin when interviewed on BBC's Newsnight.
Asked repeatedly if she had confidence in Mr Martin, Miss Harman, a
lawyer, refused to answer. She simply said that it was her job as
leader to work with the Speaker and Serjeant at Arms.
Miss Harman, who is also deputy Labour leader, said: "I am not saying
I've got full confidence in anything or anybody I'm just telling you
what the facts are".
=====================
POLITICS HOME 3.12.08
Comments on Police Scandal
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Today programme, BBC Radio 4 at 07:15
Pound: Only Harman questioning Speaker
Stephen Pound, Labour MP
Mr Pound defended Speaker Michael Martin and claimed only Commons
leader Harriet Harman was refusing to offer him full confidence.
He spoke after Ms Harman was asked five times on the Newsnight
programme to declare full confidence inn the Speaker and Serjeant At
Arms, Jill Pay, but refused.
Mr Pound insisted Mr Martin was a decent man and it was only
"hindsight" that led to suggestions he should have established
whether police had a warrant when they searched Tory Damian Green's
office.
"Conservative officials in Damian Green's office did not ask for a
warrant when the police turned up. It is easy being incredibly wise
after the event. In hindsight and with retrospect, I would have asked
the perfect question," he said.
Asked whether Ms Harman's response meant the Speaker should go, he
said most Labour MPs supported him and he should stay for the
remainder of the session, at least.
"I do not know what his long term plans are," he said.
He agreed MPs had been "aghast" at how events had unfurled, adding:
"Many MPs were aghast at the way the Tory party seemed to be
soliciting information from this wannabe Tory MP."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Today programme, BBC Radio 4 at 07:58
Lord Mackenzie: MP can't claim privilege if crime comitted
Lord Mackenzie, Labour peer and former chief superintendent
Lord Mackenzie insisted MPs could not claim privilege if a crime had
been committed and said the police would have had the right to search
Damian Green's office without a warrant because he was arrested.
"Clearly there was a document produced and signed by the Serjeant At
Arms which gave permission. There were national security issues
involved, Sir Paul Stephenson said that, and that the CPS was
involved all the way through and the police process was checked with
them," he said. [The Director of Public Prosecutions [CPS]
categorically denies involvement. And if this argument were correct
it merely means that if the Police want to search somewhere and know
they’d never get a warrant they just trump a charge and arrest them.
This man talks rubbish! -cs]
He said Westminster was a "special place" but added that a police
search did not require a warrant if there was an arrest., adding:
"Warrants are generally used when people are not under arrest".
"There is no way an MP can claim privilege if a criminal offence is
involved and these are serious issues," he said.
He also said the officers concerned would be "quite happy" to be
summoned to the bar of the Commons to explain themselves.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Today programme, BBC Radio 4 at 08:13
Beckett: Not for government to support Speaker
Margaret Beckett, Housing minister
Mrs Beckett supported Harriet Harman's refusal to declare her views
on the Speaker, saying it was not for the government to support or
criticise the Speaker.
"The Speaker is elected by the whole House. If the government starts
giving endorsement to or criticism of the Speaker we are in very
difficult territory. It is not for the government to give support or
otherwise for the Speaker," she said.
She said she did not believe either the Speaker of the Serjeant At
Arms were solely to blame for the circumstances surrounding the
search of Damian Green's Commons office, saying it had been a series
of unfortunate events.
Asked for her views on the Speaker, she said: "I think he handled
things yesterday with dignity."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Today, Radio 4 at 08:56
Winnick: I thought it was justified to make the remarks I made
David Winnick, Labour MP
Mr Winnick said he “thought it was justified to make the remarks I
made” about calling police officers to the Commons to explain their
conduct in the Damian Green arrest, and added that it was important
that Labour MPs voice their protests.
“If we just allow ourselves to agree to what occurred…it can
encourage further raids. If it happened to an opposition MP today,
who will be next?
“If we don’t make our protests from government benches there will be
less credibility if a Labour MP is arrested.”
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Today, Radio 4 at 08:57
Kennedy questions how much police can contribute to MPs' inquiry
Charles Kennedy, former Liberal Democrat leader
Mr Kennedy questioned how much information the police would be able
to provide to the committee of MPs asked to look into the Damian
Green affair, and denied parliamentarians were being “over precious”
over the issue.
“We’ve got this inquiry set up. There are serious question marks
about common sense apart from anything else.
“What I’m not clear about is how much the police will be able to
contribute to such an inquiry.
“I’ve genuinely been quite struck…that it was by and large the main
topic of conversation that people wanted to raise with you in terms
of politics.
“I don’t think we’re being over precious – there should be a line in
the sand.”
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