A self-explanatory shambles.
This is a political disgrace as
opposed to all the moral lapses!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx cs
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CONSERVATIVE HOME Blog 31.3.09
(AND HANSARD!)
Europe Minister Caroline Flint admits she has not read the Lisbon Treaty
Caroline Flint, the Minister for Europe, made a stunning admission in
the House of Commons yesterday - that she has not read the Lisbon
Treaty. During a European Committee session, the following exchange
(not yet online) took place between the Minister and Mark Francois,
her shadow:
"Mr Francois: Given that the treaty is integral to the documents we
are debating this afternoon, I am a little surprised at the
continuing vagueness of the Minister's answer. This is a really
simple question: has the Minister read the elements of the Lisbon
treaty that relate to defence?
Caroline Flint: I have read some of it but not all of it.
Mr Francois: What!
Caroline Flint: I have been briefed on some of it.
Mr Francois: That is an extraordinary answer. The Minister for Europe
has not read all of the Lisbon treaty. That is an absolutely
extraordinary revelation. It is a bit like the Irish Prime Minister
saying that he had not read it before the referendum. That is an
incredible answer. If she is Minister for Europe, why has she not
read the treaty?"
The Lisbon Treaty provides for: a new EU president; an EU foreign
minister and EU diplomatic service; the European Court of Justice
having jurisdiction over key elements of criminal legislation
(including arrests and sentencing); more powers for Europol; the EU
setting uniform standards for asylum seekers; legally binding status
for the Charter of Fundamental Rights; the abolition of national
vetoes and new areas where no veto will apply; and a ratchet clause
allowing the EU to abolish any non-defence national veto without a
new Treaty.
Caroline Flint may not have read the Treaty, but she has offered
opinion on it readily:
"I believe that the Lisbon treaty is good for the United Kingdom and
good for Europe."
"The Lisbon treaty provides a simpler, more streamlined EU."
(Both House of Commons, 13 October 2008.)
When Ken Clarke admitted he hadn't read the Maastricht Treaty he got
into a spot of bother. I wonder how this story will run.
Tom Greeves
---------------------------
Update: The debate took place in European Committee B. Immediately
following the exchange above, the (Labour) Chairman Eric Illsley
intervened:
"The Chairman: Order. The Lisbon treaty is not entirely relevant to
the documents under debate.
Mr. Francois: With respect, it is mentioned a number of times in the
documents.
The Chairman: It is related, but it is not the document under debate
this afternoon. I ask the hon. Gentleman to bear that in mind.
Caroline Flint: The Lisbon treaty's mutual assistance clause, article
(1)49, is in accordance with article 51 of the UN charter, which
states that countries have"the inherent right of individual or
collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs",
and as such-
Mr. Francois: You are supposed to be Minister for Europe; how can you
not have read the treaty?
The Chairman: Order."
The Treaty was sufficiently relevant to the debate that the Minister
carried on talking about it even after her Labour colleague tried to
rescue her! What a shambles.
opposed to all the moral lapses!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx cs
=============================
CONSERVATIVE HOME Blog 31.3.09
(AND HANSARD!)
Europe Minister Caroline Flint admits she has not read the Lisbon Treaty
Caroline Flint, the Minister for Europe, made a stunning admission in
the House of Commons yesterday - that she has not read the Lisbon
Treaty. During a European Committee session, the following exchange
(not yet online) took place between the Minister and Mark Francois,
her shadow:
"Mr Francois: Given that the treaty is integral to the documents we
are debating this afternoon, I am a little surprised at the
continuing vagueness of the Minister's answer. This is a really
simple question: has the Minister read the elements of the Lisbon
treaty that relate to defence?
Caroline Flint: I have read some of it but not all of it.
Mr Francois: What!
Caroline Flint: I have been briefed on some of it.
Mr Francois: That is an extraordinary answer. The Minister for Europe
has not read all of the Lisbon treaty. That is an absolutely
extraordinary revelation. It is a bit like the Irish Prime Minister
saying that he had not read it before the referendum. That is an
incredible answer. If she is Minister for Europe, why has she not
read the treaty?"
The Lisbon Treaty provides for: a new EU president; an EU foreign
minister and EU diplomatic service; the European Court of Justice
having jurisdiction over key elements of criminal legislation
(including arrests and sentencing); more powers for Europol; the EU
setting uniform standards for asylum seekers; legally binding status
for the Charter of Fundamental Rights; the abolition of national
vetoes and new areas where no veto will apply; and a ratchet clause
allowing the EU to abolish any non-defence national veto without a
new Treaty.
Caroline Flint may not have read the Treaty, but she has offered
opinion on it readily:
"I believe that the Lisbon treaty is good for the United Kingdom and
good for Europe."
"The Lisbon treaty provides a simpler, more streamlined EU."
(Both House of Commons, 13 October 2008.)
When Ken Clarke admitted he hadn't read the Maastricht Treaty he got
into a spot of bother. I wonder how this story will run.
Tom Greeves
---------------------------
Update: The debate took place in European Committee B. Immediately
following the exchange above, the (Labour) Chairman Eric Illsley
intervened:
"The Chairman: Order. The Lisbon treaty is not entirely relevant to
the documents under debate.
Mr. Francois: With respect, it is mentioned a number of times in the
documents.
The Chairman: It is related, but it is not the document under debate
this afternoon. I ask the hon. Gentleman to bear that in mind.
Caroline Flint: The Lisbon treaty's mutual assistance clause, article
(1)49, is in accordance with article 51 of the UN charter, which
states that countries have"the inherent right of individual or
collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs",
and as such-
Mr. Francois: You are supposed to be Minister for Europe; how can you
not have read the treaty?
The Chairman: Order."
The Treaty was sufficiently relevant to the debate that the Minister
carried on talking about it even after her Labour colleague tried to
rescue her! What a shambles.
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