Special Dispatch | No. 2603 | October 18, 2009
Palestinians
PA President 'Abbas: No Palestinian Refugees Must Remain in Lebanon; Some Will Return to Israel
In an interview with the London daily Al-Hayat, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud 'Abbas said that no Palestinian refugees must remain in Lebanon, and that some of them must return to Israel and some to the homeland.(1) He expressed objections to the establishment of a Palestinian state within interim borders, and demanded that all issues agreed upon with the administration of former Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert be discussed in permanent settlement negotiations – including the issues of refugees and Jerusalem.
The following are excerpts from the interview:(2)
The Palestinians Want to Maintain Relations with Obama Under Any Circumstances
Q: "What is your opinion of the atmosphere of the bilateral and tripartite talks?"
'Abbas: "In principle, it was worth discussing the question of whether or not to hold the meeting [on the margins of the U.N. General Assembly]. Ultimately, we decided that we must come [to a meeting] even though some opposed it, some were silent, some attacked [the idea], and some were critical, because our policy is to act in a positive manner... It is better to go and to express our view. So we went to the meeting.
"We told Barack Obama that there were commitments that he himself had declared, and that we were committed to them. We have fully carried out the [commitments] concerning us, and we are continuing to fulfill our commitments in the issues of security, rule, and institutions – while the Israelis have done nothing.
"In the past eight months, the U.S. administration has tried to make progress and to invest efforts by means of Special Middle East Envoy George Mitchell. The administration says that some progress has been made, but we [Palestinians] cannot agree to the setting of facts on the ground. A partial halt to [construction in] the settlements means the continuation of [construction in] the settlements. Even a 95% halt means continued settlements.
"President Obama's position is 'We've achieved something; we'll go on and build on that' – while our position is 'We must stop, and then we'll begin again' – after we determine the source of authority for the negotiations, [namely] the basic issues – that is, borders, settlements, refugees, security, water, and other issues.
"Obama is now continuing his efforts; he says that he will continue for a certain time frame, long or short, and then will think about what to do. We want to maintain our relations with Obama under any circumstances, and we do not want a crisis between us and the Americans – but at the same time we must proceed on a clear path. The milestones must be clear so that we will know where we are going. "
No Agreement on Territorial Exchange Was Reached
Q: "Where exactly does the dispute over the source of authority lie?"
'Abbas: "We agreed (with former Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert) and with the Bush administration on the source of authority [i.e. the point of departure of the negotiations], and it is the demarcation of the West Bank borders and of the occupied territories.
"This issue was decided among us, the Americans, and the Israelis, as follows: When we say occupied territories, we mean the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, including Jerusalem, the Dead Sea, the Jordan [Valley], and the no man's land [in the Latrun area]. The term 'no man's land' was explicitly defined: the former Israeli-Jordanian border [sic]. From that point, we moved forward another step with the Olmert government, to an attempt to agree on territorial exchange and to draw maps, and we did draw maps, and proposals were made for territorial exchange – though we reached no agreement. To return now to the starting point – that is a problem."
Certain Issues Such As Jerusalem and the Refugees Should Not Be Off Limits during Negotiations
"Basic issues were mentioned at the Annapolis conference. We discussed all six issues in Olmert's time – that is, [including] the issue of borders and the issue of Jerusalem. We must not regress and say that we agree [to discuss the issue of] Jerusalem, but object to [discussing the issue of] the refugees. These are the issues [that must be discussed], and this is what we mean by 'source of authority.'"
Q: "If so, is there an essential dispute between us and the Israelis on the issues that need to be discussed?"
'Abbas: "Exactly. There is an essential dispute."
Q: "Will it continue for long?"
'Abbas: "Yes. The Netanyahu government is really a problem, because there is no common basis for talks. The settlements will continue; he [Netanyahu] says that [discussing] Jerusalem is off limits, and the same goes for everything connected to a halt to the settlements or to discussion of the future status of the settlements. He also said that [discussing] the refugees is off limits. So what will we talk about, and what will we agree on?
"They [i.e. the Netanyahu administration] oppose the two-state [solution], while our source of authority... talks about two phrases that Bush used and that were validated by the Road Map: 'an independent Palestinian state, to be established alongside the State of Israel,' and 'an end to the occupation that began in 1967.' What do these [phrases] mean? They are important things that were agreed upon [but] that Israel does not want. The state that Israel is talking about is one with interim borders."
Dialogue is Helpful – It Will Continue on All Things Connected to Daily Life and Security
Q: "If so, we are much worse off than it seemed when the U.S. administration took up the task. And if that is the case, why are meetings being held early next month?"
'Abbas: "We are not opposed in principle to talks and dialogue. The disputes will be raised during the negotiations. Dialogue is helpful, and I already said at the Arab League council in New York that in no way will I stop the dialogue with Israel on all things connected to security, the economy, and daily life, whether or not political negotiations take place. The dialogue will continue. There is no severing of relations between me and the Israeli government. There is a dispute over how to begin the political negotiations, and when we agree we will conduct a dialogue."
Q: "Will you continue to talk with them even if this continues for an unlimited time?"
'Abbas: "We proposed a [limited] time frame, but Israel refuses. Nevertheless, we will continue to talk, [because] we have no other option. We can either talk or stop [talking]. If we stop [talking], the crisis will worsen. We are not in a situation that will allow us to live in crisis. At least we can continue talking..."
We Oppose a State with Interim Borders
Q: "What do the Israelis want?"
'Abbas: "They want [the establishment of] a [Palestinian] state with interim borders."
Q: "And how did you respond?"
'Abbas: "I said I was opposed."
Q: "Why do they want a state with interim borders?"
'Abbas: "A state with interim borders is a state with an area that is 40% to 60% of the Palestinian areas in the West Bank. They want a Palestinian state to be established with interim borders – but [since the process of the establishment of a state] will take 10 or 20 years, these borders will become permanent because of reality. This is what [the Israelis] intend, and we oppose this. This matter is written in the Road Map, but [only] as an option, and we do not accept this option..."
Not One Refugee Will Remain in Lebanon – And Some Will Return to Israel
Q: "Ceremonies are being held to mark the 60th anniversary of the founding of UNRWA... Issues are coming up such as the treatment of the refugees in the Arab countries, the right of return, and resettlement..."
'Abbas: "...We support a situation in which not one single refugee will remain in Lebanon... Some of the refugees could return to Israel, and some to the homeland. Some of them have Palestinian citizenship, and they will not be a burden on Lebanon..."
Endnotes:
(1) "Homeland" apparently refers to the Palestinian state.
(2) Al-Hayat (London), September 24, 2009.
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