Student Fees 17.1.2011
This is what I am looking into at present--This first paragraph was forwarding on to me. Students from the rest of the UK who attend Scottish Universities could face tuition fees of £6500 a year under plans being considered by the SNP government. The move is one of a range of ideas designed to avert a looming cash crisis in higher education. Ministers refused to rule out some form of graduate tax, though they said it was not their "preferred option". But they said upfront tuition fees for Scots and other EU Nationals studying here were a non-starter. Education secretary, intimated that the rest of the UK - allowed under EU rules - would generate about 143 million per year. Ministers also said it would discourage "tuition fee refugees". The LibDemCons' decision to raise tuition fees in England as high as £9000 sparked concerns that students would flock to Scottish Universities, where they currently pay £1820 per year.
My Argument: Discrimination re Nationality and the European Court of Justice.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is one Country as far as the European Union is concerned. The UK Government ratified EU Treaties to that effect. In no way has each separate Nation or Country (Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and England) been tied to the EU or in the European Union separately. So, why under the laws of the United Kingdom are University Fees discriminatory one to the other within the United Kingdom? Each of the four parts, Nations of and/or Countries, were all as one for the purpose of ratification of the then European Economic Community Treaty of Rome in 1972, and is still classed as one whole in the European Union of 2011?
However, as far as the EU is concerned Scotland is a REGION of the EU, as is Wales and Northern Ireland, England remains as one although it might have been 8 EU regions. So, I am looking at the Nationality Discrimination Laws. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and ENGLAND are Nations and Countries in their own RIGHT. Firstly for arguments sake even as one whole Country all University fees or lack of, should all be the same? The EU, NATO, UN, etc class this United Kingdom as one Country. I would suggest, that to charge countries differently in one union is some what odd to say the least? All should be the same. Or if not, is it discrimination re nationality to charge different rates for different nationalities/Countries?
Also to be aware of, stemming from after WWII, most continental Countries in the EU have new written Constitutions, these can be quite easily changed to suit new EU legislation. The UK however, have had the same Common Law Constitution for hundreds of years, some parts of which cannot be changed and other parts not changed very easily either. However, various British Governments in their eagerness to be Governed by foreigners-which is contrary to the Common Law Constitution of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland- have either ignored their own Common Law Constitution or have tried to change it. They seem to forget that they are the temporary Government of this Country, or to remember that their true and faithful Oath of Allegiance is to the British Crown and through the Continuity of the Crown, this Country which so many in the past have given their lives for, so that they in turn are ready to give their lives also for this country to remain free from foreign rule if need be.
In “The Scotsman” 14th January 2011 Headed, “Taxpayer subsidises EU students by £75m” an excellent article was written on the subject of Tuition Fees, by Eddie Barnes. One sentence here that I have put my thoughts to, “ Mr Russell last night said the cost for the Scottish taxpayer was now "simply untenable", as he vowed to step up moves in Brussels to put the cost of studying back on to the EU students themselves. Ministers say the current position is particularly unfair because the EU rules do not apply within states”. (Why not indeed? Is this because the EU is still trying to cause unrest-to deliberately divide NATION STATES? I certainly cannot see any other reason for such an action.
The EU is already telling nations what they can and can’t do in other Country’s. What on earth is the point in electing MP’s in this Country if they are forever only going to obey the orders of foreigners? Perhaps more importantly what on earth are we PAYING them for, if they come up with discrimination of this kind deliberately tearing this Country apart? Why on earth are they obeying such EU Laws? Why are they putting so many students into debt? If they feel that these Students will be able to claw back money from better jobs eventually, then they should set and example and all those in Parliament that went to University for FREE pay the £10,000 as an example to these students-do it for sure rather than have more riots.
I will ask the age old question, if the EU decides that all blue eyed babies should be put to death-would the UK Parliamentarians obey such an order? May God forgive them for what they have done to this Country, and for what they are continuing to do. Are they going to continue until the EU is one Great State and this once GREAT Country is completely without authority to do anything for itself-not even to defend itself?
Are not ALL students from within other Country’s originally? However, without doubt there has already been riots in London over this issue as we are all too well aware, and many young people are trying to ‘fight’ for their future-preferably without being thousands of pounds in debt unlike those that went to those same University’s for FREE will now have a Criminal Record for the rest of their lives because they allowed themselves to get carried away with the moment. Yet there would be plenty of money still in this Country, had Governments over the years not paid BILLIONS and BILLIONS of British pounds to the EU. So here is my response to that particular point, “. Scotland is a Country and nation in its own right no matter what the EU calls it. Bound by Treaties-long standing Treaties to prove it-all still in place and if repudiated or certain Clauses in it not adhered to (see Clause XXII, 16 Scottish Hereditary Peers should remain in the House of Lords, 45 Scottish MP's in the Commons- the Treaty and Act of Union might fall if not adhered to for this is one of the most important of clauses, and then indeed Scotland may not even be in the United Kingdom or the EU or perhaps the rest of the UK would not be in the EU and Scotland might remain in???)
Disturb the Treaty and Act of Union and it will also ‘disturb’ the Act of Settlement which affects the whole of the Commonwealth, and that would unravel all those close friends that came to our aid-THAT STILL DO- IN TIMES OF NEED, AND PARTICULARLY WAR. What is proposed still comes under the Discrimination re Nationality surely? A further argument of course could be that all are ‘EU Students’ and all should either go FREE or all pay the same? Consequently, there is the anomaly that English students studying in Scotland are charged fees, while those from abroad go for free. Deliberate Discrimination re Nationality?
Proof re Scotland as a nation “As cultural communities, Catalonia and Scotland are conventionally and more accurately identified as nations, rather than regions. The term ‘region’ is used here partly for the sake of brevity and consistency, partly in the governmental sense elaborated earlier in the paper, and partly in recognition of the fact that as territorial units they do not (yet) have independent statehood. There is no intention to cast doubt on their respective claims to nationhood”.
Article 17(1) EC establishes the concept of EU citizenship by stating that ‘Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union', while Article 18(1) EC provides that ‘Every citizen of the Union shall have the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States, subject to the limitations and conditions laid down in this Treaty and by the measures adopted to give it effect'.
Council Directive 2004/38/EC of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the European Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the EU brings together the complex body of legislation that existed in this area. It eliminates the need for EU citizens to obtain a residence card, introduces a permanent right of residence, defines more clearly the situation of family members and restricts the scope for the authorities to refuse or terminate residence of EU citizens who come from another Member State. The Member States have two years, until 30 April 2006, to transpose this directive.
Article 39 EC includes a guarantee of free movement of workers, and that this ‘shall entail the abolition of any discrimination based on nationality between workers of the Member States as regards employment, remuneration and other conditions of work and employment.' However, it was not clear whether the reference to ‘workers of the Member States' covered only EU nationals or also non-EU nationals resident and working within the Community, so that the same principle applied to all workers in the Community, regardless of their nationality. However, Council Regulation 1612/68 of 15 October 1968 on freedom of movement for workers within the Community specifically restricts its application to workers who are nationals of the Member States, and the European Court of Justice has interpreted the provision as applying only to EU nationals. (As I understand it people from the UK are also EU nationals? I therefore suggest that all University fees/payment should be the same, for surely what is happening now, is discriminating against the people of one part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, unless of course the Welsh University is strictly/exclusively for those that live or born in Wales, ditto Scotland etc.)
The EU states that a member country must charge the same for students from another member country as they do from their own. HOWEVER, it goes on to state that the member country can charge more for students within the same country.
That's what the rules state now. Students from other EU nations must be treated the same as students within the nation. But, due to the principle of subsidiarity, terms and conditions may vary within a member state. That is why students from England at Scottish universities can be treated differently to students from, say, France.
So as long as Scotland stays within the "Union" and is not recognised as a separate "country" within Europe then the Scottish government can charge higher rates for students from England/Wales/NI......
Devolution is the statutory granting of powers from the central government of a state to government at national regional or local level. It differs from federalism in that the powers devolved may be temporary and ultimately reside in central government, thus the state remains, de jure, unitary.
From “The EU in Ireland” Being European citizens as well as Irish nationals means we all (Except the English?) enjoy the basic right to live, work, study or retire in any EU country we want. Free movement of citizens has always been a cornerstone of EU membership but it originally only applied to workers and later their families. Over the years this fundamental freedom has been extended to all citizens and in the past decade automatic rights of residency have been introduced through the Maastricht and Amsterdam treaties. That means all EU citizens (Again-except the English?) are now entitled to move freely to another EU country to get a job, enrol in college, enjoy their retirement years or simply to experience a different culture.
http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/the_eu_and_you/living_in_europe/index_en.htm
See page 20 here re nationality. http://fds.oup.com/www.oup.co.uk/pdf/0-19-926683-2.pdf
Non-discrimination and equal opportunities for all in the EU
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/dossier/dossier_23.htm
http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_263_sum_en.pdf
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Taxpayer-subsidises-EU-students-by.6689928.jp
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