Alain Juppe in an interview with F.A.Z.
"Libya does not need military aid"
The French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe is talking about a European recovery force for Tripoli, over disagreements with Berlin, which are not suited to the drama, and the Greek thread, which may not be on the ladder of European sweater.
Alain Juppe in conversation with the F.A.Z. in the French embassy in Berlin
31st August 2011
Mr. Minister, have pre-Iraq war in 2003, Germany and France carefully. Why it has such a vote between the two countries in the event Libya is not given?
Everyone has made his choice. France was of the opinion that military intervention is absolutely essential, given the immediate threat to the population of Benghazi. Germany has taken a different decision, and we respect that. From the beginning of operations, especially at the conference in Paris in March, when it was the Chancellor, Mrs Merkel has said, however, Germany does not take part but, however, was not neutral.
France has believed or knew that Berlin would abstain from voting in the UN Security Council?
Yes, of course. Very early in my office my colleague Westerwelle has meant that Germany was against the use of military resources and would abstain. At a joint press conference in Brussels, we have said then that we are pursuing the same goal, even if we disagree about the means. France was convinced that the use of force was essential; Germany believed that sanctions would suffice. But in the end, we all agreed: Gaddafi to drive from power. From the differences of opinion must be done no drama. Today we are again side by side to help in the reconstruction of Libya.
What are the consequences for the common European foreign policy?
They have pointed to the Iraq crisis 2003rd I think this time is the split in Europe was not so deep, and this for the reason just mentioned, that ruled over the goal basically agree. So I do not think that has weakened the ability of the European Union to commit itself today to the side of the new Libya.
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France has stepped up its military cooperation with Britain in recent years. With Germany there is not the same progress.
This feeling I have not. In response to the euro and the financial crisis, we have acted in close cooperation with Germany and made great progress. The idea of an economic government for the euro zone was not widely shared until recently. Today it's so far. It is true in the military field, we have differences in the assessment. And it's also true that we have signed the agreement with the British House of Lancaster and to work together in many areas. But we also work closely with Germany, for example in the Weimar Triangle in order to advance the common foreign and security policy.
Europe was absent in the crisis. Has it not shown that the "European foreign minister," Ms Ashton is actually superfluous?
That's not true. Mrs. Ashton was not entirely absent in the Libya crisis, since on each of Foreign Ministers under her chairmanship, we talked about Libya. Ms Ashton is also very active in the preparation of what the "day after" must be done in Libya. About as far as humanitarian issues, but also in terms of human rights and the monitoring of free elections and the establishment of a new state. And since they will also remain very present. It goes without saying that there were during the period of the military mission, the spotlight on NATO and not directed towards the EU.
First it was said that it was not the aim of the military deployment Libya, Gaddafi to bring you down. But it did not really matter exactly?
I've told you from the start, even if it was not so in the Security Council resolution. The Security Council has established the legal framework for the use. But nothing prevents the diplomacy it to say beyond that Gaddafi has been discredited. They have even accused me that I've said too soon. You know that the G 8 has declared that Gaddafi must go on; Ms Merkel and Mr Sarkozy have formulated at the summit in May just in Deauville.
Russia and China, however, have complained that the UN mandate had been interpreted too widely.
We have respected the Security Council resolution, even if Russia sees it differently. Incidentally, in the six months, thousands of airstrikes against military targets in Libya have been executed, and the so-called collateral damage, so victims among the civilian population, have remained extremely low. So we have played our role well, and that was to attack military targets and to protect the civilian population. I recall that President Medvedev has nevertheless signed the statement in Deauville, distribute in the goal, Qaddafi from power, was explicit. Today we are told that Gaddafi should sit at the negotiating table. No! We assist with determination of the Transitional Council in Libya, and also for the red line is that Qaddafi has to go. What happens next is a matter for the Libyans.
Libya needs a peace or a stabilization force after the war?
Certainly the Libyans need help because of the transitional council is still young and there are internal tensions. Libya will also need international assistance, initially financial, and therefore we are sharing credit extended abroad even Gaddafi.We have to not spend our money, we must give the Libyans only the money that they deserve. Libya also needs help in rebuilding the state. It needs no military aid. You will need to send observers to Libya. It needs a reconstruction force, but no intervention force.
Europeans have a role to play in this?
Yes, certainly. Now NATO is no longer in demand, but the European Union.
And the role of Germany?
Germany will be present, because it has, I believe, never been a doubt. And Germany also wants to contribute to the reconstruction of Libya. Unless the United Nations to send observers to Libya, Germany and wants to participate, we would be glad. We have played our role now to take over others.
They have already talked about the Franco-German cooperation in the Euro-crisis. Crisis management was well up to now?
That was not ideal, because it takes a long time, until the 17 countries of the Euro zone have agreed upon. But Germany and France still have a crucial role to play, and at the end of us, this is also always succeeded. I believe that the decisions we make on 21 July at the Euro-summit in Brussels on 16 and Met August at the German-French summit in Paris were good. The situation remains fragile, of course, and the markets are still nervous. But I would point out that this is not only a euro crisis, there is also an American crisis, and generally a problem that has to do with the indebtedness of the states, thus a global issue. The resolution of the Euro zone is certainly not acceptable, because it would be the dissolution of Europe. If that happens, then everything is possible. The boys seem to think that peace is assured for all time. But if we look around Europe, there are new populism and nationalism. So you can not play. European unification remains an essential common good and consequently the preservation of the Euro zone. So we will do whatever is necessary to ensure the cohesion of the euro zone.
President Sarkozy and Chancellor Merkel have agreed to harmonize fiscal policies in the euro zone. It also includes a debt brake.
You see it again, that is made possible what seemed impossible a few years ago. This has already led to consequences, because in Spain, the Zapatero government decided just such a debt brake. So there is a positive contagion effect. In France is discussed, but we are in a pre-election period, and that's why the Socialist Party put their own interests first of all before the common good. But that will change, for a debt brake is now an absolute necessity.
Recently, the ECB President, Jean-Claude Trichet, even tossed the idea of a European finance minister in the debate. What do you think?
The idea of an economic government, that the close coordination of economic and fiscal policies, is good and essential for a common currency. We have now proposed as two annual meetings of euro zone leaders for this purpose, have also proposed a permanent president for this meeting, namely the EU Council President Van Rompuy. Whether one should go further and create a permanent structure, such as a secretariat, will be seen later.
France has a concept of national sovereignty, which goes beyond that of Germany. We have to just remember that France has its own nuclear weapons. A common European tax policy, as proposed by France, it would mean but a loss of sovereignty.
Yes, that's right. But the core idea of European unification is, that certain decisions are made not in Paris but in Brussels.The first policy area that was correct for that was agriculture.Since the late fifties, it is decided in Brussels. The concept of transferring sovereignty was accepted in France - even General de Gaulle. The idea to submit the first of a European national budgets to control before they can be decided by national parliaments, a voluntary abandonment of sovereignty means.
And that's without a referendum?
Yes. The French parliament, the Assemblée Nationale, is legitimate enough to decide. The harmonization of fiscal policies in Europe is, moreover, an old idea. If that succeeds, it would be a remarkable improvement. The crisis makes it clear that we need in the euro zone is a form of European federalism.
Can you imagine that one day the United Kingdom adopt the euro?
One day ... Yes, I can imagine. But not in the near future.
Greece can remain permanently in the euro zone?
I hope so, we must do everything that Greece is a member of the Euro zone. If we allow the elimination of one that is as if you pull a sweater on a thread. Then all the stitches to dissolve quickly. Greece has to be guilty of errors, even errors. It must correct them, it also tries. The Greek people have to cope with heavy tasks. But now we have to give the Greeks time. We can not expect from a country that its finances in a year or two back in order. Such a thing takes five, maybe ten years.
And the others? Portugal, Spain? Even Italy has been struck, even France has already gotten a warning shot to the rating agencies. Makes your worries?
Of course I enjoy caring. But the situation of the countries you mentioned is very different.
And France: it also has problems?
Yes, France has also a problem. We have a large budget deficit, a very high debt. We make every effort to reduce the debt. However, our growth last quarter was weaker than expected, as well as in Germany. Immediately, we have taken the necessary measures.
Former Chancellor Kohl has criticized the European line of the federal government. It also aims at the Franco-German cooperation. There are cracks in the recent and visible differences. Does the tandem, the engine or whatever this cooperation is called for?
If we are honest, then it has in the past half century may from time to time disagreements, friction between Germany and France. Take Charles de Gaulle and Konrad Adenauer, Valéry Giscard d'Estaing and Helmut Schmidt and Helmut Kohl and François Mitterrand: There were differences from time to time.This is normal. Our interests are not necessarily always the same. Yet we all believe that close relations between the two countries is of fundamental importance. Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle has just emphasized on the occasion of my visit again. I was recently in Spain. What is the biggest concern there? French and German that no common position of the euro crisis find. The gross domestic product of both countries taken together make up more than half of economic output in the EU.
The Franco-German tandem must not be expanded, for example to Poland?
The old idea that the integration goes forward at different speeds on different fields, is indeed still valid. This is the euro so, but also in the European security and defense policy. Since we are trying to broaden the Weimar Triangle of France, Germany and Poland to Spain and Italy.
For ten years, the center of German politics is no longer low in the west, near the German-French border in Bonn, but in Berlin, 600 kilometers away from this limit. Do you think this has changed the focus of the Germans in France and Europe?
Certainly. The reunion was a great opportunity for Germany.That was the dream of German who has become a reality.Does this mean a weakening or a strengthening of Europe? I think it is an asset for Europe, that the division of Germany is finished. It certainly does not mean that Germany from the west.
To come to a very specific dispute of recent times, to phase out Germany's nuclear power generation. This step has surprised you?
Yes. That went a bit fast. There are certainly differences of opinion. Since every country must decide for themselves.
But you would not have been like to be informed a little earlier?
We have taken the decision of the Federal Government to proceed.
The conversation with the Foreign Minister Alain Juppe of the French Republic led Eckart Lohse and Günther Nonnenmacher.
Text: F.A.Z.
Pictures: Anna Jockisch
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