Wednesday, December 03, 2008
Did the Police Have a Warrant Requested Denied?
Iain Dale 5:44 PM
Why did they not apply for a warrant to search his House of Commons office? Did they think they didn't need one? Or was it because Jill Pay had already given them the nod.
Or there is another explanation. The Police did think they needed a warrant to search Green's Commons Office, applied for it, but the magistrate turned it down. Unlikely, but in this peculiar story nothing is impossible.
Anyone know how this could be checked out?Bromley Council: Hang Your Head in Shame
Iain Dale 5:23 PM
I've just heard a lady on Radio 5 called Maureen Gebbett. She received a parking fine of £80 even though she had paid for a ticket. Apparently it was a hot day and it peeled off her windscreen so the Parking Attendant couldn't see it. She appealed the ticket and was told to go to see the council's solicitor in London. She did so and he recommended that the Council should cancel the ticket. The Council decided not to and made her pay.
Mrs Gebbett, 63, who sounded as if she is probably a doughty member of the W.I. went to her bank and asked them for £80 in 1p coins. When they heard why she wanted them, they couldn't hand them over quickly enough. She loaded them into a wheelbarrow and took the money round to the Council's offices and made the payment.
Makes you proud to be British.
What does not make you proud to be British is the attitude of the Council officers, who need to be reminded that they are there to serve the public and not the other way around. They refuse to meet with Mrs Gibbett. Perhaps Bromley councillors might like to take this up and pay Mrs G her money back (not in 1p coins!) and issue an apology for the appalling behaviour of their incompetent staff.Michael Martin's Statement Poses More Questions for the Police (And Himself)
Iain Dale 2:55 PM
The Speaker's statement was far more controversial than most of us were expecting. Effectively he fingered the Police, as well as demonstrating that the Serjeant at Arms is clearly not up to her job. Martin said he did not consent to the searching of the offices and said Jill Pay should not have approved the search without asking for a warrant. He said the Police should have told her she was able to deny permission without a warrant. Clearly, she should have known that.
Michael Martin was clearly angry about what had happened, but he did not make clear that the buck stopped with him, and not Jill Pay. He was informed on Wednesday evening of the fact that an MP's office might be searched. Martin has told us what Jill Pay told him, but not what he said to her. Did he just listen? Did he not ask Jill Pay about the warrant issue? If not, he should have done so.
This statement is clearly damaging the Speaker even more than I thought possible. But it is also hugely damaging to the Metropolitan Police. Several MPs raised Points of Order (including Labour's David Winnick) demanding that the senior policemen responsible should be brought to the Bar of the House to explain their behaviour.
The granting of a debate on the issue on Monday and the creation of a Committee of Seven Wise MPs may buy Speaker Martin time. But he is a broken man, both politically and personally. One could almost feel the sympathy MPs felt for him. No one was willing to stick the boot in. But surely even his doughtiest defender would admit that his status and credibility is now terminally damaged.
Jill Pay is a convenient scapegoat. She was clearly underinformed and made a bad call. But if she is made to pay for this with her job, then I am afraid she should not be the only one.Speaker's Statement Live Blog
Iain Dale 2:29 PM
2.30 Quite astonishingly the Labour benches aren't full.
2.31 The Speaker is late turning up.
2.32 Very quavery voice.
2.33 Says he couldn't make comment until Parliament recovened. "It is this House that I serve and this House alone, and I am accountable for the actions of its officers".
2.33 "Parliamentary privilege has never prevented the operation of the criminal law". "No special restriction on Police searching parliamentary precincts".
2.34 Police didn't tell Serjeant at Arms identity of the MP likely to be arrested. At 7am on Thursday Police called the SAA and explained background. Disclosed to her Green's identity. SAA called Speaker and said that a search "might" take place. Was not told that the Police did not have a warrant. Have been told that Police did not explain, as they are required to do, that SAA was not obliged to consent, or a warrant could be insisted on. Regret that a consent form was then signed by SAA without consulting Clerk of the House.
Wow. Explosive stuff.
2.36 I did not personally authorise the search. Was only told that evening the search had gone ahead on basis of a consent form. Regret was told only by Police yesterday by letter that MP was arrested on suspicion of conspiring to commit misconduct in public office. Have reviewed handling of matter. From now on a warrant will always be required where a search of a MP's office or papers is sought. Every case must be referred personally to The Speaker. Will be made clear in a protocol to all MPs.
2.38 Referred matter to a committee of seven MPs nominated by the Speaker. Motion should be tabled by Govt for debate on Monday. Report to be debated by House as soon as possible thereafter.
2.39 Michael Howard is raising a Point of Order. Attack on DG's ability to do his job. Martin cuts him off. Howard asks him to make clear that any MP can question the conduct of government ministers of civil servants and house authorities. Martin says it is up to Govt to table the motion.
2.41 Sir Ming Campbell on a Point of Order. What is remit and powers of the proposed committee. Should keep account of fact that Police aren't above the law either. Committee must have info from every source - Govt, opposition, Police & Hof C
2.42 Martin agrees. Sort of.
2.43 John Reid: Four principles must be under discussion by Committee - rights and privileges of MPs, MPs are also subject to law, should Ministers have been consulted and the principle of independence of police is reasserted and principle of political neutrality of civil service.
2.45 Damian Green: Thanks all those who have expressed support. I believe MPs are not above the law. Those who have real power, are also not beyond the law. An MP endangering national security would be a disgrace. An MP disclosing embarrassing facts which the government are hiding is doing a job in the public interest.
2.46 Denis MacShane: Widespread anguish on all sides of House. Systematic breach of confidence in a Minister's office destroys confidence in the system.
2.47 IDS: Directed Executive to draft the motion. Am concerned that the Executive are also party to the whole issue which took place with the arrest of DG. Our concern is that that motion may be drafted in such a way to limit the scope of the debate. Could Speaker direct them to listen to all sides of the House in drafting the motion.
2.48 Speaker: Will be an amendable motion.
2.49 David Winnick: Can appreciate Speaker's frustration at waiting four days to remain silent. All you have said that what took place totally without any justification. Breach of parliamentary convention has taken place. Those responsible must come to the bar of the House to explain their conduct.
2.50 Douglas Hogg: Would he confirm Police are not above the law. What powers do we have to call those senior Police officers to account for this scandal?
2.51 Andrew Mackinlay: What is not clear is at what time Clerk informed and when did they speak to you. Were they available?
2.52 Speaker says he cannot question the statement.
2.52 Alan Beith: Can House say to its officers that we direct and will support you in the robust defence of Members' rights to speak to constituents.
2.53 Sir Patrick Cormack: Is it Speaker's intention will be a full day and could House have an idea of when Committee will report.
2.54 Speaker says this is a matter for the government.
And that's it. A truly memorable occasion.
Analysis to follow...Who Will be the Faces of 2009?
Iain Dale 12:08 PM
Queen's Speech Open Thread
Iain Dale 11:32 AM
To start off with, I don't think David Cameron exchanged a single word with Gordon Brown during their walk to the Lords, whereas Brown was gabbling away 19 to the dozen!
UPDATE: Was that the shortest Queen's Speech in living memory? Normally there are 17-22 bills. Today Her Majesty announced thirteen, I think. As a small state Tory I welcome that! You could of course accuse them of running out of ideas...It Wasn't Me, Guv
Iain Dale 11:03 AM
Sir Paul carefully avoided the question of whether he or his colleagues told the Serjeant at Arms if the CPS or DPP had endorsed the need for Green's office to be searched. The DPP denies this. Sir Ken MacDonald, the outgoing DPP told Newsnight last night that he would certainly have been expected to be consulted directly.
Sir Paul Stephenson also said that there "could have been national security implications" in this case, but failed to outline what they were. A good deflecting tactic if ever there was one. There are clearly no national security aspects behind the leaks at all.Mandy Ratchets Up the Temperature
Iain Dale 9:32 AM
Just when calmer heads seemed to be winning the day, he has pitched into the Damian Green debate and ratcheted up the temperature by about a hundred degrees. His interview on the Today Programme is now leading the BBC news bulletins. In the interview he tried to turn his fire on the Conservatives in the most blatantly partisan manner, accusing them of everything from conspiracy to break the law and killing the first born creating a smokescreen. The BBC News website hasn't thought fit to run the story yet, so here's what he later told Sky News."I also have to say I think that for many Conservatives, it is a self-serving smokescreen, behind which to hide their own apparent collusion with a Home Office official who was allegedly systematically leaking Home Office papers to the Conservative Party, in order to pursue his own personal political ambition."
This is classic Mandy and word for word what he earlier said on the Today Programme. Expect this to be the line followed by other Labour spokesmen throughout the day. It's called a 'deviation manouevre'.
The Business Secretary added: "I would like to know from the Conservatives whether their frontbench and their leader knowingly colluded with that civil servant in riding a coach and horses not only through the Civil Service code but also through the law."
My partner isn't political at all. He said to me the other night: "Who's behind all this Damian Green stuff? Isn't it obvious it's Mandelson? All this nastiness only started when he was brought back?" I wonder if that is a commonly held view amongst people outside the Westminster bubble?
UPDATE: Listen to David Davis & Lord Foulkes debating what the Speaker might do HERE
Wednesday, 3 December 2008
There's been a lot of to-ing and fro-ing in the previous threads about whether the Police need ed warrant or now. The Police apparently think they did, because they had three warrants issued at 5.15pm on Wednesday. One was to seach Damian Green's Ashford home, one to search his London home and one to search his constituency office.
I hope that a Bromley Conservative Councillor is reading this, and will do something about it.
The House of Commons distinguished itself this afternoon. There was no ranting, no raving, no play acting, and most of all not too much sign of party politics. It was an occasion when the House of Commons rose to the occasion and showed that it can behave itself when it needs to.
Ready for the off... Please do comment as things progress. There is no delay for moderation. It's all in real time...
I'm about to write a feature on the new political faces of 2009. I've got a fair idea of who to include in it, but the wisdom of the crowds (i.e. you!) may suggest a few I haven't thought of. Go to it, readers!
Use this thread to post comments about the Queen's Speech as it happens.
Sir Paul Stephenson, in his statement to the London Assembly, has made clear that it was the Serjeant at Arms who gave permission for Damian Green's office to be searched. His message: Don't blame me, I was only doing my job. She in turn may well deflect responsibility onto the Clerk to the House of Commons, Dr Malcolm Jack. The big question, which will hopefully be answered this afternoon, is whether the Speaker was merely informed, or gave his active consent.
When I ran into Peter Mandelson the other day he asked me how my blog was doing, giving more than a hint that he is a regular reader. I told him it did particularly well on the days I wrote about him. Today will be one of those days.
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